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By now, most of the Internet has seen the clip from the “So Did the Fat Lady” episode of Louis C.K.’s sitcom “Louie,” in which Vanessa (played by Sarah Baker) talks about what being fat means in terms of her love life. It would have been really easy for this to go down a self-pitying road, but it doesn’t. Vanessa isn’t disappointed that she’s fat; instead, she thinks it sucks that society deems her as “less than” or “not good enough,” simply because of how she looks.
Most of the columns we’ve seen online about this clip have been overwhelmingly positive about the raw honesty of Vanessa’s statement. However, we’ve found that the most interesting commentary on the topic, surprisingly, is in the comments sections of these columns. We all know the comments sections on websites are generally full of ignorant idiots who spout off anonymous insults and hide behind their keyboards in their mothers’ basements (except for those on PGP, of course). While there were the expected “she should lose weight” remarks, we noticed more of the comments were from men who spoke out about how societal pressure bullies them out of being attracted to someone who they are initially attracted to–in this case, plus size women. One of most profound comments we read followed a Jezebel column on the topic. The commenter, a man, said, “Louie hit this one on the head. I’ve dated a lot of heavier girls and I’ve definitely felt the judgement from other men. The problem isn’t that men don’t like big girls; it’s that men don’t like the way other men look at them when they’re with big girls.”
So that’s what it comes down to, huh? We, as people (because girls are just as guilty of this as guys) are so insecure that not only do we care what people think about how we ourselves look, but we care about what people think of how the person we’re with looks? So much so that we would choose to pass over someone great who we’re attracted to, just because we’re worried about what other people might say? Doesn’t that strike anyone else as sad? More importantly, doesn’t it make you angry?
As you can tell from our profile, we are two women who write together. What you can’t tell from our profile picture (yes, it’s a fake–pretend to be shocked) is that one of us is a soon-to-be former fat girl. (Sixty pounds down, 50 to go!) We can add a personal story to this topic:
A few months ago, I started talking to this guy. He was nice looking, funny, and attentive. As a plus size girl, one of your immediate concerns when you meet a guy is, “Is he going to be okay with how I look?” because if you’re honest with yourself, a lot of guys aren’t, whether it be for their own preferences or because they’re afraid of what their friends will say when they show up at the bar with a girl who’s not a size two. I was comforted when two things happened. First, in the course of stalking his social media (oh shut up, we all do it) I found that he followed a few Twitter feeds dedicated to the beauty of plus size women. “Okay,” I thought. “Maybe I’m what he’s into.” Second, he told me that he, at one point, was 50 pounds overweight and had to work at maintaining his current weight. “Great! He gets it, so let’s see where this goes,” I said to myself.
After a few great dates and one so-so sex session, it didn’t end up working out. Of course, I asked myself all of the usual analytical questions: Why didn’t he like me? Am I boring? (No, I’m freaking hysterical.) Am I bad in bed? (Prior feedback on my skills says no.) Was it because I make more money than he does? (I’m not going to apologize for my success, jackass.)
While those are things that most girls worry about when a relationship doesn’t work out, as a plus size girl, there’s this one other thing that nags at you, too: Was it that he cared what people thought about me and my weight? Was he embarrassed by me? Now, you can say any guy who wouldn’t want to be with you because he cared more about what other people thought than about you isn’t worthy of your time, but that doesn’t make it feel any better. It’s the question that sits in the back of your head when you can’t think of any other good reason why it didn’t work out.
Let’s be honest. Dating is hard enough without having to worry about what those around you think of the person you choose to be with. When you become so concerned about what other people think that you stop making your own choices, the only person who winds up losing out is you. Another comment, also from the Jezebel column, puts this into perspective: “I definitely had times when I was younger where I let peer pressure lead me away from relationships that probably would’ve been fulfilling purely because of societal expectations and fears. Of all the mistakes I’ve made in my life, those are the ones I’m most ashamed of.”
Shouldn’t those mistakes be the ones we are all the most ashamed of? Shouldn’t we all have the courage to love who we want to love, and to not give a shit about what people think of our partner’s looks? Let’s just stop. How about we all agree to stop caring about what other people think, and be with who we want to be with? Oh, and if you are one of those judgmental assholes who would actually comment on the looks of your friend’s choice of partner, please stop and just go fuck yourself. Finding love is hard enough without us judging each other’s choices.
Respond
Jenna Crowley
Jenna used to be known as 2NOTBrokeGirls, but then one of the girls actually went broke, so she's struck out on her own. Jenna spends her free time saving the world, one sorority girl at a time (usually while wearing yoga pants), questioning why she decided to get a doctorate, documenting her love of all things cheese related, and hosting the new PGP podcast Don't Take It From Us. You can ask her anything you want about football, using your boobs to get what you want, and pizza at @JennaLCrowley on Twitter or via email at JennaLCrowley@gmail.com.
@JennaLCrowley
@donttakeitfromus
I’m a male who is 6’1 195, so not overweight, btw, this is probably the first serious comment I’ve ever posted on this website, but I am attracted to bigger girls. Back in college and in HS I always dated chicks who were extremely small. But in the last few years bigger girls (Not ridiculously obese) have been a turn on and I’d be lying if I said that my friends didn’t influence whether or not I didn’t date a girl because it definitely did. I’m kind of ashamed of myself after reading this.
This is a safe place.
I can always rely on McGannon.
postgradmydickbitch, we kind of love you (and your username).
https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTYpRFqeEMzY9U4zya1CeBAVX2KUAHEvLudPFWaPsdza_yiQkQT
I didn’t feel like typing in some html, just click it.
I think we can all agree, that referring to a woman as a “bigger girl” or “plus-size” is demeaning. “Sexy thick” is the preferred adjective. Makes a woman feel special! (Side-note: I too, felt a sense of shame after reading this. As most men should.)
Stopped reading at Jezebel
No but seriously, maybe lose some weight.
Personally, I’ve always preferred “curvier” women. Also – in all seriousness – I’ve read that men are biologically predetermined to seek out larger women (think cave men times: child bearing hips = more chance of women & child surviving birth, continuing your lineage). That’s probably complete BS, but when I’ve gotten *lighthearted* crap from friends about dating/talking to bigger girls, I just tell them they’re genetically inferior as males.
You’re a national treasure, Dude.
There’s nothing wrong with a little weight, it’s definitely more appealing than the girls who are just skin and bones. But it doesn’t hurt to jump on a treadmill or go for a run every so often.
I think living your life the way you want and ignoring the pressures of society is a great philosophy in dating and in life. However, it is much easier to express it as an abstract idea than putting it into real, physical actions. What else explains why so many people go to jobs they hate and live in places they don’t like and date people they don’t actually love.
Studies have shown that people on average tend to end up with other people who are about as beautiful. This happens through a process of being rejected by better looking people, and rejecting worse looking people. Its a painful process, but its also reality. And another reality is that in this society, “fat girls” are not considered attractive. So I think many men might avoid dating a “fat girl” for the same reason they would a skinny girl who has an ugly face – they think they can do better. There is probably some biological or evolutionary reasoning behind all of this.
So basically, fellas – if you’re into fat girls, by all means go for it and be happy. But ladies – I think we also need to cut guys some slack who genuinely aren’t attracted to “fat girls”.
I was totally going along with what you’re saying (it is indeed a painful process, the struggle is REAL) up until that last point: with that, you’re kind of missing the point. As a curvier girl, I have absolutely no problem if you aren’t attracted to fat girls – I’ll cut you all the slack you want. I mean, come on. I have my preferences too because I am a human. For example: I think the redheaded dude from Harry Potter is the sexiest.
The issue presented here is that men are often subtly + repeatedly told by their friends and peers that if their preference does lean on the curvier side, it’s wrong, hilarious & something that must be defended with a quip about evolutionary logic (simply refer to the above comments from postgradmydickbitch & TheDude). For us “fat girls” it can be disheartening to know we have to add this hurdle to the already painful process of modern dating. The episode of Louie and by extension this article was simply bringing light to this fact + starting a dialogue. With this particular conversation, no one is trying to beat you over the head with “fat acceptance” so you can put that one to rest.
We are just going to “ditto” Ann; she said it better then we could.
Yeah, ok I can agree with that – that judgment by other men is a real force. I would like to know if you think there is a similar force for women on who to date – i.e. with fat men, short men, bald men, etc?
Absolutely, that’s why we said girls are just as guilty of this as guys. This particular scene was focused on one area, so the column was as well, but it’s certainly applicable across the board.
Ok cool I’m actually 100% on board with this. I’ve noticed that the older I get, the less and less I feel pressure from society and the more and more I do what makes me happy….or maybe I’ve just run out of fucks to give?
As a former fat kid who lost ~80 pounds, losing weight is the best thing you can do for your health and your game. Storytime: I lost weight and girls willingly started to date me without (much) shame. Good story, right? I’m not going to waste my time lamenting society for making it unattractive to be fat or whatever dumb shit they do over at Jezebel but I will say that when you lose weight and inevitably look better, all that anxiety about whether someone (romantic interest or other) likes or judges you because of your slovenly appearance goes away. And holy shit, you feel so much better! So here’s the moral of the story fatties: stop being fat. Put down the family bucket, finish chewing, cease using fatlogic. Start to work out, eat right, lose weight, be confident. That’s a better message to tell than trying to incite outrage about utterly tangential issues like “shaming” or “social pressures”.
Don’t let the blunt packaging of what I’m saying give you the wrong impression, either. If you’re a guy who likes bigger women, more power to you. As far as I’m concerned, polygamy should be legal for you and your ilk. No judgments here.
There’s still something I don’t get… If you’re larger, and it’s giving you serious FOMO, fix it. It’s not like casual exercise (intramural leagues, running/biking/volleyball/throwing Frisbee with a friend, etc.) isn’t fun, and when you’ll feel better physically and (apparently) emotionally about it doing it, why the hell aren’t you?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89xUz9fZBXA
Best quote from Scrubs, helps to support your point!
because people should be able to feel good about themselves and their bodies without societal pressures over the ideal body making them feel less-than.
It may be different for men but for women casual exercise ain’t gonna cut it for serious weight loss.
Oh Jesus, okay, I concede. I would much rather watch repeats of Scrubs while powering through a party size bag of Doritos all day and all alone than go for a bike ride by myself to explore some cool shit and then prepare a meal that doesn’t make me feel like I’m going to puke. I mean, damn, sitting atop the Santa Cruz mountains with a warm victory beer really sucks balls around sunset in comparison to heading to 7/11 for more Doritos, but fucking society man.
i have no idea what you are talking about. you do have a vivid imagination though. all i’m saying is being in shape takes a lot more than being in a kickball league with annoying coworkers; that won’t make you magically thin.
also i am not trying to discourage working out. but for those who have tried “casual exercise” and seen no results don’t feel bad about yourself, that’s not the end all be all of weight loss; sometimes it’s not that easy.
My Fiancee isn’t super skinny (not obese by any stretch, she is curvy), and neither do I want her to be. As long as you’re healthy and not going to have any health issues from your weight, then be happy with who you are. I love how she looks. Also, because she isn’t preoccupied with her weight, we can actually eat all kinds of food and her not feel guilty about it or start to count the calories and make the moment a chore.
However, I would like to reiterate, everyone should strive to be healthy. It will make you quality of life increase exponentially, plus you’ll live long enough to see teleportation, which should be a dream for everyone!
It has absolutely nothing to do with appearance. It has absolutely everything to do with health, and by extension character. Someone who is not disciplined enough to maintain a moderately healthy body should not be surprised when people aren’t lining up to meet them. There’s a difference between being an olympic athlete and just not being grossly overweight…you dont have to be michael phelps to be healthy.