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Reintroduce yourself to The Friend Zone: here here here and here.
I haven’t been trying very hard to hook up with Mia since forever. We’ve both been busy frolicking through New York on parallel tracks, enjoying each other’s company only as friends. Same goes with her bestie Lyla, with whom the peanut gallery wanted me to schtup, but that’s not how I roll (it’s also not up to me, as it never is). And while there hasn’t been too much blog worthy material (save for waking up one day with a semi-naked Lyla in my bed – – platonic blackout sleepover, it would seem), you never know when the fortunes will turn. Am I crushing on Mia nearly as much as I was back in the spring? For sure not. But, she’s still a beautiful woman any guy would be lucky to date.
However, I am, by most advanced metrics, playing down a man, so to speak. We’ve been friends a solid year now. She’s single, sure, but dating dudes not named me. I’m dating girls not named her. And the longer we go down the path towards being old enough friends where sex is pretty much farther from the table than Rex Ryan after lap-band surgery, the more insurmountable a potential relationship becomes.
Truth be told, I haven’t hooked up with someone who I was first friends with in a longggg time. Several years. I’ve been out of the game a while, as they say. But what we’re all forgetting is that I AM the fucking game, pal.
***
Being as how some of my friends can be wet blankets at times whenever I remark that I want a somewhat classy meal, I wasn’t surprised when they balked at me when I asked if they wanted to grab a burger at The Spotted Pig, a formerly Michelin starred West Village gastro pub with a celebrity chef, and a hamburger that I personally believe is the best burger in Manhattan.
But, I knew Mia, being the down ass chick that she is, would jump at the chance. So, the two of us went.
We sat at a small, secluded table for two, laughing, crushing beers and burgers, and enjoying each other’s company. At one point, Mia made a comment about the small table: “I invited my friend Jen; good thing she didn’t come. There’s no room!”
“Who’s Jen,” I asked.
“A friend from high school. And camp. We grew up together. I actually thought you guys should meet, I think you’d hit it off.”
It hit me like a wrecking ball in the gut, except without a naked Miley Cyrus ride on top. Okay, I’m being a little dramatic. It didn’t really impact me at all, if we’re being honest. And that’s when I knew my crush on Mia was beginning to fade. I didn’t mind that she was potentially trying to set me up with a friend.
We wrapped up our dinner and made our way to a bar to have a few more beers. It was at this point when Mia and I started swapping some recent happenings in our lives regarding the opposite sex. Shared some hook up horror stories, I convinced her the guy she was seeing was either gay or a virgin because he was refusing to have sex with her, you know, the usual stuff. Anyway, several beers later it was time to part ways with a warm hug and a pleasant goodbye.
And I told you this relatively boring and mundane recounting of dinner and drinks with a friend to bring up what is essentially one of the longest debates I’ve had with my friends for years: when is a date, a “date.”
I postulate that a date is any time two people spend time together who have a non-zero chance of ending the night with some sort of sexual activity. And whether the other party is aware of it or not is, to be quite frank, irrelevant. (PLEASE, do not construe this as some sort of consent issue, hear me out).
Yes, Mia went into this dinner with what I assume is a platonic friend (me). But, let’s say, instead of us discussing the fact that she’s having boy issues manifesting as her new dude possibly being a gay virgin who refuses to mount her like a horny teenager, we talked about how she hasn’t really been dating, or she’s been having trouble connecting with dudes, or whatever. I could work with that. I could help get that platonic friend date to something different. And you can, too. Because you, like me, are still in the game. We’re still in it. The final whistle hasn’t blown.
I’ve dated girls who’ve started as friends, and we had been friends for a while before dating. It really is all a matter of timing. When the moment is right, you’ll know, and you’ll make a move.
For me, I don’t think something with Mia is going to happen any time soon. She’s seeing a dude (possibly a virgin) and I’ve been getting very limited signals from her. Texting less, Snapchatting less, hanging out a little less. But, obviously, that’s natural, especially if she’s dating a dude. Things were definitely different between us back in the spring, but I actually take that as a positive. A sign that I did have a shot, when maybe we all thought I was just her emotional tampon.
In fact, I think there was a window for me to hook up with her. And I botched it, or at least, could’ve played it better. Maybe she was also texting this virgin dude and he played it better than I did. Maybe not. I’ll probably never know, or even want to know.
It’s funny; I’m not really upset about any of this. Life goes on. Mia and I probably are better as friends, if I’m really being honest with myself. So we’ll continue down our parallel tracks in NYC. We’ll hang out, we’ll have fun, we’ll be friends.
But in the words of Topanga Lawrence: I do my thing and you do your thing. You are you and I am I. And if in the end we end up together, it’s beautiful..
Respond
Boston Max
Spending my retirement fund at Trader Joe's and trying to remember to check my mailbox semi-regularly
@BostonMaxG
@boston_maxg
Getting cucked by a gay virgin. PGP
That guy isn’t gay or a virgin, he’s most likely dating other girls that he’s more into than Mia and it’s driving Mia crazy. Mia is probably going nuts for this other dude right now.
Sorry but let’s stop feeding this fantasy world Max is living in.
Also, hint hint Max. If Mia is thinking and wondering about this guy and how she wants to hook up with him, then maybe you should take notes as to what that guy is doing (answer: being mysterious/not being available/having options/not getting hung up on one girl/making her wonder if she’s got a chance with him/setting up real dates/not being her fucking friend). Girls are more into guys who’s feelings about them are unclear- she knows how you feel about her, but she can’t figure out this other guy (“why won’t he have sex with her? Isn’t she in his league? He must like her though because he said or did xyz though right??? Right? …” This is what she’s thinking, this is the game, this guy is on her mind because his feelings are unclear and he’s created sexual tension, meanwhile Mia is trying to set you up with her friend…). Take notes, also read my comment I posted last night near the bottom to best help you in your friendzone situation.
If 2018 is the year of shooting your shot, Max is stuck in 1985, Bowling for Soup-style.
Way before Nirvana (who are overrated, btw)
Mia loves Nirvana. I think we found the problem here.
This’ll get down voted into oblivion but its true, they had one (really really really) good album, then like two more songs on “In Utero” Other than that its really not great.
If I was reading something like this written about me I would be hurt and offended that you were reducing our friendship to whether or not there is a chance you could have sex with me.
Zing
That’s a really sobering comment, one that will certainly keep me up at night and cause some introspection. It hurts my feelings, but it’s good criticism, and I get it.
BUT, I don’t know how this is only being read as a sex thing; I’m not trying to be Vance Munson a la Hitch. Mia is a girl who I really liked and thought I could date. Not just try and smash. My use of the word “Sex” in the column is more of a proxy for a relationship that goes beyond “just friends.” Now, having said that, I also do not view Mia as a girl who I keep around just because at one point over the spring I had a big crush on her. I truly do value her friendship, as I value all my friendships, and I never would want to reduce our relationship to just “yeah she’s hot, I want to hit it.” That’s not the intention of the story.
To be 10000% transparent, I wrote this to introduce Jen in a unique way, and to kind of phase Mia out, so to speak, as well as try and write about this thought I’ve been kicking around about what the hell is the definition of “Date.” I will say, I think the point about intention is the best thing i’ve read in here and is well taken.
Dude… You’re acting like Hitch was in college, where he was needy and didn’t understand how to attract women.
What you need to do is hang out, have fun, and hook up. In other words be a man, because want their men to be men. Girls want guys who do those 3 things and aren’t breathing down their neck for a relationship right out the gate, because they want a challenge, they want the guy they can’t fully commit to a relationship right away. But you’re talking about friendship and relationship from the start and it reads as over eager, desperate, and too easy, and no girl wants a guy that they think is easy. You’re that guy. You’re easy. You’re available. You’re on a date that isn’t clearly defined as a date. Mia knows she can have you, so she doesn’t want you.
Max not exactly getting gassed up in these comments.
Hey now, we gave this man jet fuel time and time again. You can’t blame the pit crew if the driver never switches on the ignition.
I love this
He deserves a reality check. And his game needs work.
I’m sorry, but your definition of “date” is batshit insane and is dangerously close to “Nice Guy” territory.
Like it or not, there isn’t a magical combination of words and phrases that can get you into a girl’s pants if she doesn’t want you to be there. Throughout this entire series, there has been an internal narrative that has been running counter to the reality of the situation. There was no shot to be shot. You were a source of attention, and now that she doesn’t seem to want or need it, she’s trying to find ways to defuse the situation. When the girl is trying to invite girlfriends to join y’all (aka, “Hey, here’s this guy, you might like him, I’m not interested and I need someone else to take him off my hands because I don’t want him reading into this situation any more than I’m sure he is already”), you’re reaching a new level of “nonexistent relationship.”
And frankly, your “alternative discussion that makes it a date” topic is nonsense, too. I don’t know about you, but when I’m on a date or in front of a potential romantic interest, I’m doing my best to present my most perfect self. Not whining about dating. I save that for friends.
“I postulate that a date is any time two people spend time together who have a non-zero chance of ending the night with some sort of sexual activity.”
So you definitely did not have a date with Mia. She wanted to introduce you to a friend – not something she would’ve done if she had even an inkling of wanting to hook up with you. Sorry to say but you sat on the sidelines and blew it. And if you had a shot, it was before becoming her emotional tampon, if there ever was such a time.
Nah man you miss the point. Like, I could go for drinks with a girl I’ve been friends with for twenty years but if she’s single there’s a NON-ZERO chance of sex. That’s a date.
It’s a date when both people go into the drinks/coffee/dinner knowing it’s a date. If you have to ask, then it’s not a date. We aren’t in high school anymore.
I feel like a date can become a date mid-date so to speak. This wasn’t a date, but if the conversation happened like in his theoretical story…at that moment it goes from hanging out to being a date, IMHO.
This is going to sound strange, because I’m 100% straight and have never had sex with a man and don’t intend to, but like if I had a buddy who was gay, and we got drunk, and he convinced me to have sex with him, then I went into the date with NO INTENTION of having sex with him but did anyway. So, did we go on a date?
No, that just sounds like you decided to drink with Kevin Spacey.
As someone who has had hooked up with friends, I never once considered any of our 1-1 hangouts a date, before or after the hook up happened. I would say we went on a date only if we both stated the 1-1 was a date and not just two friends hanging out.
THOSE ARE DATES
No, it’s just two friends spending time together.
Who you’ve had sex with prior, or have ended up having sex with. To me, that’s a date. And I’ll die thinking that.
Nope. Sex and romance are two separate things that sometimes overlap, but you can have each without the other.
I do not think date implies romance or vice versa. I’ve gone on “dates” in the true sense of the word (think Bumble match) and have had zero romance. And I’ve hung out with friends in a scenario that probably didn’t intend to be a date and it go flirty. The point I’m trying to make and doing a horribleeeeee job of is to not overlook maybe a really great guy or girl who’s sitting right in front of your face just because you think it’s blasphemous to try a romantic “date” with a friend.
It’s all in the intent. Date implies an INTENT of romance, regardless of whether or not said romance materializes. And for it to be a date both parties involved have to go in with the same understanding and intent of romance.
You’re deluding yourself and projecting your interest level onto the situation. You have multiple people here telling you that you are acting like a friendzoned pussy and need a reality check. Man up and ask her out on a real date and when she says no, move on and don’t contact her again. If you do contact her again after being rejected, then you’re caving like a wuss and being her friend. Just like literally any negotiation in life, the most powerful thing you can do is be ok with walking away in order to show your worth. And you need to walk away and never look back and she maybe (MAYBE) might miss you. But you being this sappy loser pinning for her, dude it’s never going to happen with your approach. It’s not the movies. You’re creating your own misery and suffering.
You need to start watching Corey Wayne on YouTube immediately, Max.
No I get it. I think the problem is you’re looking at it from only your point of view. YOU may have thought there was a non-zero chance of hooking up with Mia, but Mia definitely thought that there was a zero chance of hooking up with you because prior to the dinner she thought to herself “Hmm, I have this nice friend that isn’t me that I think Max would like to date.”
If your attitude towards being friends with women is “there’s always a chance for me to have sex with them as long as they aren’t dating someone,” you kinda sound like a creep tbh.
That’s not how I would describe my “attitude” towards being friends with women. I like women, and have many friends who are women. I’m not looking to have sex with them (maybe a few). But if they flat out said they wanted to, would I stop them? Probably not. If you think that makes me a creep? I’m not going to lose sleep over it.
It all depends on the pretense of the event. If both parties don’t agree that its a date before the event, you didn’t go on a date. You’re just chillin.
HARD disagree
This was not a date. You have never been on a date with Mia. Get Jen’s number, then go on a date.
$20 says he gets her number, becomes her emotional tampon and 3 months from now we’re reading something similar only with Jen instead of Mia.
Max, I’m going to help you, this is going to be long but you need this. If you really really want Mia, stop being her fucking friend. You need to ask her on a real date, if she gives you the “I see you as a friend” deal then you need to tell her that you “can’t just be friends with her, but if she ever changes her mind give you a call.” And then DISAPPEAR. Don’t call her, don’t text, no happy birthday/merry Christmas, no liking her posts or watching stories, you need to make her feel life without you. If you keep being there for her she will keep treating you the way she does. Do not reach out to her ever again, PERIOD, let her reach out to you from now on (most guys don’t do this because they think “oh I havent talked to her in X days/weeks/months I have to do something to win this girl over.” This is the opposite of the truth. You need to do nothing and make her curious and wonder about you to where she reaches out).
Now IF (I say if because you might have done irreparable damage at this point) she reaches out, you need to assume she’s doing so because she wants to see you (remember you’re a catch and you’re awesome), and you need to set up a date immediately, don’t engage in chit chat, the phone is for setting up dates. If she declines, tell her “ok well I’m busy and have to go, give me a call if you change your mind.” You will do this only twice. If she rejects you twice, then all future times she reaches out it has to be her idea to see you. And each time keep all conversations short and make sure you’re the one ending them because you’re too busy for her.
In the meantime, start dating other girls. A lot of other girls. This will help you to move on, improve your game, realize that there are plenty of girls better than Mia that are into you, and might even make Mia a little jealous if she sees you with these other girls. Finally you have to let this girl come to you because right now you’re her available buddy, which you don’t want to be.
And if you didn’t have time to read all this, then you deserve to keep fucking up and suffering with Mia.
This was gold. Unfortunately, he won’t cut her out.
You can take a horse to the water but you can’t make it drink. He probably won’t read this or take the advice of a commenter because he’s seen so many movies and thinks he can friend this girl into loving him, not knowing you need to be her lover first and all the friendship stuff will develop naturally as a relationship does slowly over time.
Like all teachers, I pass on this knowledge from advice of those before me and from my own personal experience- I had to learn the hard way. Hopefully he takes it and stops writing about being friendzoned.
Correct, or he’ll justify his dating inadequacies as “you’re all just a bunch of haters..”
His next article he tells me “nah I’m good.” The truth hurts and people only want to hear what they want to hear. I’m literally telling him EXACTLY how to win the girl he’s been crushing on forever now, but he won’t listen. He’ll keep hanging out with her as her buddy and hang on to the hope that one day she’ll love him.
I take it you’re a fan of Coach Corey Wayne
Oooh Boy, I like this so much
At least tell us you asked for Jen’s number
That’s way too alpha for him..