I agree. There probably shouldn’t be much of a raise (or any) when performance review time comes around after taking 6 months off. Impossible to makeup that much time. But at the same time 10% lower earnings per child over an entire career can’t be explained by just 1 missed raise. I’m thinking there’s a deeper connection here between performance and having kids. And maybe more importantly the definition of performance as well. Busting ass 60 hours a week, while commendable and should be rewarded, shouldn’t be the status quo.
I wouldn’t recommend that. I would recommend giving a percentage of your money to a larger entity comprised of representatives selected by yourself and fellow citizens who then work to balance the needs of everyone to maintain stability both globally and domestically. In return you’ll generally get a functioning economy with infrastructure, protection from foreign and domestic entities, and many other services that seek to maintain a well functioning society, avoid and mitigate catastrophic events, prevent humanitarian crises both domestic and globally, and generally promote life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness of its citizens.
So performance based? Is that any different than what is done at the majority of private sector companies? As long as they’re doing what is being asked of them by their employer to the desired level of quality does it matter how much they focus on their family?
Why would they not pick right back up where they left off? Are you advocating they get a pay cut or demotion for having a child (which is illegal)? Or are you in some way advocating they should get a pay raise (why?)?
Or are you just saying they shouldn’t get put back on the same projects they were working on? Which I assume would be expected, since the business will still keep going without them. I assume they’d come back to the same position, take a few weeks to get back up to speed on what they missed, and be back doing what they were doing on new projects.
It is the role of government if you look at it through the lens of public health and if you want your society to be generally full of reasonably well functioning adults, raised by parents who generally wanted their children. Access to contraception is the best way to make sure people are having kids when they want to have them. Access to contraception is most limited when it is needed most (teens), through both cost (teens generally don’t have a lot of money) or stigma (they don’t want to ask their parents). These programs seek to alleviate those barriers. Also, Planned Parenthood received just over $500 million from the government last year, of which around 30% went to contraceptives, so we’re talking about $150 million. Which in terms of government spending is a fraction of a fraction. (source: http://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2015/08/05/429641062/fact-check-how-does-planned-parenthood-spend-that-government-money). People and teens (especially) are gonna bang. Making sure they have the tools and education to do so safely and avoid unwanted pregnancies is a public health concern.
After a certain point it becomes systemic and it’s no longer about personal choices, no matter how ill informed they may have been. I got an engineering degree too. There were many times where I was cranking calcs at night while others were out at the bars. Yes it sucked. I’m not saying we reward those that thought it was a good idea to take out $100k in loans for a 4 year party and get a dick-off degree in basket weaving. But the student loan problem is getting to the point where it’s going to torpedo the entire economy a-la 2007 unless some mitigating steps are taken soon. So it’s going to effect you in a negative way one way or another. The choice at this point is do you want a graze or a shot in the chest? The damage is already done. The best we can hope to do is mitigate the fallout and learn from the mistakes. Put systems in place so that kids think long and hard about signing those papers, know that trades and community colleges are viable alternatives in many cases, get businesses to understand that a 4 year degree is not required for many (if not the majority) of their positions, and try to get college costs in check by tackling the cost increase-loan increase cycle.
In general I agree that it’s pretty stupid to lend that much money to an 18 year old. But without federal backing interest rates on student loans would be crazy high since there’s no collateral involved, essentially pricing out those without means to a higher education. Somewhere there’s a solution that balances access to education against giving out what some mistakenly view as “free money” until the bill comes. We don’t want kids taking out $100k loans for underwater basket weaving and other horrible ROI scenarios, but at the same time we don’t want to price out the kid who’s the first from an impoverished family to attend college and wants to become a doctor, nurse, or engineer and shows the aptitude to achieve it.
If I was smart enough to know what that solution is, I sure as hell wouldn’t be a desk jockey.
Even with the onset of automation, money spent on goods is much better for the economy as a whole instead of loan payments to financial institutions. The money flows back through the supply chain touching many more employees than going back into a loan institution’s coffer after one transfer.
And in the end, it will be your problem, it will be all of our problem. These people just don’t disappear from America. Instead of trying to help them now and set them up for success later down the road, they’ll spend decades in and out of poverty, straining government safety nets eventually ending up old and without savings or retirement to help them through their final years. And many will still be making loan payments. The cost to try and fix the problem now is much cheaper than letting it fester.
As much as I’m sure you’d like to hole up somewhere and scream “I got mine, screw you!” or tell people they just need to pull on their bootstraps harder, those are not a viable solutions to chronic macroeconomic problems.
So the response to hundreds of thousands of people unable to payback their student loans in full plus interest is basically “get fucked”? By and large, I think they are making grown up decisions when the decision is between keeping the lights on/repairing their shit box car so they can make it to work vs paying their student loans that month. Student loans take a back seat every time.
The house will be foreclosed and any remaining debt can be forgiven in bankruptcy. The BMW can be repossessed and any remaining debt due to depreciation can be discharged in bankruptcy. Student debt never goes away, unless you can convince a bankruptcy judge you’re an extreme case (beyond rare). This program isn’t forgiving every penny the students borrowed. It’s forgiving the remainder of whatever is left after 20 years (or 10 if you’re in public service, which are typically high need, lower paying jobs) of income based repayment. They’ve paid for 20 years. I think it’s time to allow them to move on from this instead of haunting them with their decision until they’re dead.
Even beyond a personal level, you don’t think that long term this debt won’t have a significant drag effect on the economy? These payments go to financial institutions that employ a handful of number crunchers instead of it going toward new goods that employ many more manufacturing jobs.
Fun fact about this program, if you get married both incomes now count toward the 10%, so be ready for the sticker shock when that monthly loan payment balloons by $500/month or be prepared to file taxes separately. Or get a divorce. Whatever.
Just because you did doesn’t mean everyone can. Personal responsibility certainly plays a major role, but there’s hundreds of thousands of other forces at work here that can make it impossible for many to pay off their entire balance with interest. Job market forces, housing costs, even the goddamn energy market fluctuating the electric bill plays a role in whether some people are going to make this month’s loan payment or slowly fall behind never to catch up. What if you have a medical condition or accident? Just man the fuck up, right?
Move to a cheaper city? And just magically get another job? One that pays more than the current one? I’m sure if that opportunity presented itself the vast majority of people with significant student loan debt would jump on it.
You can’t cut costs that are already cut to the bone.
As someone who suffered and paid off all their loans, I’m happy that others will not have to go through all of the bullshit I had to and maybe they can have a decent shot at not being as cynical and jaded as I am because of it. Maybe they’ll even have a savings account with a decent balance and a start on their retirement.
Other people getting a break or a little bit easier road in no way takes away from your accomplishment.
A roof over their head, a vehicle to get to work, food, electric bill, maybe even health insurance or a grand or two in savings to fall back on in case of a personal disaster or putting a little something in the 401k on the off hope you may one day retire? Maybe even buy a house, get married, and have a kid before they turn 40 instead of putting their entire life on hold for two decades because of a decision they made at 18?
There’s a lot wrong with the current student loan situation, but continuing to punish post grads that have no additional funds to put toward loans is like trying to get blood from a stone and doesn’t do anyone any good. I’d be willing to be that the vast majority of people want to do right and payback the full balance with interest. For some that’s just not in the cards.
I shudder to think of all the idiotic things I was doing and saying at 18 years old and how narrow minded and unfounded my worldview was. I then proceeded to sign for student loans that would be a primary factor in determining my financial and career trajectory for the next several decades. Not saying you’re wrong, but I think some additional education and resources focused on educating high school seniors on the long term effects of student lending and the proposition of ROI depending on what degree you choose… that could go a long way here.
Stock photo guy’s cube is over the top depressing. Not even a calendar on the cube wall? Work related reference drawing? Nothing? What the hell man. Buy a pennant for your favorite sports team and break the monotony.
Also props to the boys freezing or roasting their nads off working in the elements. May you one day be promoted to the comfy confines of the construction trailer with heat, AC, and plumbing.
Crime: In general, stay out of East Cleveland and you’ll be fine. Every major city has it’s blight spots. Downtown is safer than ever. I’ve never felt uneasy going downtown for a game or hitting east 4th street bars.
Brutal winters: Outside of the lake effect snowbelt (east side) it’s not terrible. Certainly no worse than Chicago. Depends on your definition of brutal. If below freezing with snow in the winter is “brutal”, than yeah, I guess. But anywhere with better weather will likely have a higher cost of living as well, since most people prefer warmer temps all else being equal. It’s a trade off and a personal preference. Some people enjoy cold weather. I (willingly) moved to Cleveland from upstate NY. Buffalo/Syracuse/Watertown have what I would call “Brutal” winters. Parts of upstate NY disappear under snow in late November and aren’t found until they thaw in April. Cleveland was a notable improvement in terms of weather for me. Perspective I guess. Makes you appreciate the warm sunny days in summer more.
In Ohio: I get it. Running joke and all that. But it’s home to a lot of big companies and some of the nicest people I’ve met in my almost 3 decades on this rock. I’m not here to put anyone else’s favorite state down, but there’s a lot of good things and good people that have come out of Ohio. The state and Cleveland in particular have had some tough stretches, but I truly believe they’ve come out stronger on the other side. I just feel like the constant Ohio bashing is mostly unjustified, particularly nowadays.
It’s definitely a city on the rise. Downtown is thriving. Ohio City and Tremont are becoming great spots just outside of the downtown area. New apartments and nightlife are going up every year. Cost of living compared to most other major cities is pretty damn good. It still has a lot of its grit and blue collar roots. Who doesn’t love an underdog with a comeback story?
I mean, I get it. Football is a religion in certain regions. But if you’ve never been through trying to plan a wedding and stick to a budget, certain sacrifices have to be made. Paying a 25% premium on a venue just because you want to have the wedding in “prime” season is one of the easiest things to sacrifice. If I’m inviting you to the wedding and know you have season tickets or were planning to go to a huge game that weekend I can understand skipping out. More booze for me and the rest of the crew. But if you’re planning on sitting at home on the couch and watching the game… I don’t know what to tell you. Personally, I’d have more fun at an open bar.
Advertise
“you would usually practice moderation when buying a box of cookies from the grocery store”
That’s where you’re wrong, kiddo.
I agree. There probably shouldn’t be much of a raise (or any) when performance review time comes around after taking 6 months off. Impossible to makeup that much time. But at the same time 10% lower earnings per child over an entire career can’t be explained by just 1 missed raise. I’m thinking there’s a deeper connection here between performance and having kids. And maybe more importantly the definition of performance as well. Busting ass 60 hours a week, while commendable and should be rewarded, shouldn’t be the status quo.
I wouldn’t recommend that. I would recommend giving a percentage of your money to a larger entity comprised of representatives selected by yourself and fellow citizens who then work to balance the needs of everyone to maintain stability both globally and domestically. In return you’ll generally get a functioning economy with infrastructure, protection from foreign and domestic entities, and many other services that seek to maintain a well functioning society, avoid and mitigate catastrophic events, prevent humanitarian crises both domestic and globally, and generally promote life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness of its citizens.
So performance based? Is that any different than what is done at the majority of private sector companies? As long as they’re doing what is being asked of them by their employer to the desired level of quality does it matter how much they focus on their family?
Why would they not pick right back up where they left off? Are you advocating they get a pay cut or demotion for having a child (which is illegal)? Or are you in some way advocating they should get a pay raise (why?)?
Or are you just saying they shouldn’t get put back on the same projects they were working on? Which I assume would be expected, since the business will still keep going without them. I assume they’d come back to the same position, take a few weeks to get back up to speed on what they missed, and be back doing what they were doing on new projects.
It is the role of government if you look at it through the lens of public health and if you want your society to be generally full of reasonably well functioning adults, raised by parents who generally wanted their children. Access to contraception is the best way to make sure people are having kids when they want to have them. Access to contraception is most limited when it is needed most (teens), through both cost (teens generally don’t have a lot of money) or stigma (they don’t want to ask their parents). These programs seek to alleviate those barriers. Also, Planned Parenthood received just over $500 million from the government last year, of which around 30% went to contraceptives, so we’re talking about $150 million. Which in terms of government spending is a fraction of a fraction. (source: http://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2015/08/05/429641062/fact-check-how-does-planned-parenthood-spend-that-government-money). People and teens (especially) are gonna bang. Making sure they have the tools and education to do so safely and avoid unwanted pregnancies is a public health concern.
After a certain point it becomes systemic and it’s no longer about personal choices, no matter how ill informed they may have been. I got an engineering degree too. There were many times where I was cranking calcs at night while others were out at the bars. Yes it sucked. I’m not saying we reward those that thought it was a good idea to take out $100k in loans for a 4 year party and get a dick-off degree in basket weaving. But the student loan problem is getting to the point where it’s going to torpedo the entire economy a-la 2007 unless some mitigating steps are taken soon. So it’s going to effect you in a negative way one way or another. The choice at this point is do you want a graze or a shot in the chest? The damage is already done. The best we can hope to do is mitigate the fallout and learn from the mistakes. Put systems in place so that kids think long and hard about signing those papers, know that trades and community colleges are viable alternatives in many cases, get businesses to understand that a 4 year degree is not required for many (if not the majority) of their positions, and try to get college costs in check by tackling the cost increase-loan increase cycle.
In general I agree that it’s pretty stupid to lend that much money to an 18 year old. But without federal backing interest rates on student loans would be crazy high since there’s no collateral involved, essentially pricing out those without means to a higher education. Somewhere there’s a solution that balances access to education against giving out what some mistakenly view as “free money” until the bill comes. We don’t want kids taking out $100k loans for underwater basket weaving and other horrible ROI scenarios, but at the same time we don’t want to price out the kid who’s the first from an impoverished family to attend college and wants to become a doctor, nurse, or engineer and shows the aptitude to achieve it.
If I was smart enough to know what that solution is, I sure as hell wouldn’t be a desk jockey.
Even with the onset of automation, money spent on goods is much better for the economy as a whole instead of loan payments to financial institutions. The money flows back through the supply chain touching many more employees than going back into a loan institution’s coffer after one transfer.
And in the end, it will be your problem, it will be all of our problem. These people just don’t disappear from America. Instead of trying to help them now and set them up for success later down the road, they’ll spend decades in and out of poverty, straining government safety nets eventually ending up old and without savings or retirement to help them through their final years. And many will still be making loan payments. The cost to try and fix the problem now is much cheaper than letting it fester.
As much as I’m sure you’d like to hole up somewhere and scream “I got mine, screw you!” or tell people they just need to pull on their bootstraps harder, those are not a viable solutions to chronic macroeconomic problems.
So the response to hundreds of thousands of people unable to payback their student loans in full plus interest is basically “get fucked”? By and large, I think they are making grown up decisions when the decision is between keeping the lights on/repairing their shit box car so they can make it to work vs paying their student loans that month. Student loans take a back seat every time.
The house will be foreclosed and any remaining debt can be forgiven in bankruptcy. The BMW can be repossessed and any remaining debt due to depreciation can be discharged in bankruptcy. Student debt never goes away, unless you can convince a bankruptcy judge you’re an extreme case (beyond rare). This program isn’t forgiving every penny the students borrowed. It’s forgiving the remainder of whatever is left after 20 years (or 10 if you’re in public service, which are typically high need, lower paying jobs) of income based repayment. They’ve paid for 20 years. I think it’s time to allow them to move on from this instead of haunting them with their decision until they’re dead.
Even beyond a personal level, you don’t think that long term this debt won’t have a significant drag effect on the economy? These payments go to financial institutions that employ a handful of number crunchers instead of it going toward new goods that employ many more manufacturing jobs.
Fun fact about this program, if you get married both incomes now count toward the 10%, so be ready for the sticker shock when that monthly loan payment balloons by $500/month or be prepared to file taxes separately. Or get a divorce. Whatever.
Just because you did doesn’t mean everyone can. Personal responsibility certainly plays a major role, but there’s hundreds of thousands of other forces at work here that can make it impossible for many to pay off their entire balance with interest. Job market forces, housing costs, even the goddamn energy market fluctuating the electric bill plays a role in whether some people are going to make this month’s loan payment or slowly fall behind never to catch up. What if you have a medical condition or accident? Just man the fuck up, right?
Move to a cheaper city? And just magically get another job? One that pays more than the current one? I’m sure if that opportunity presented itself the vast majority of people with significant student loan debt would jump on it.
You can’t cut costs that are already cut to the bone.
As someone who suffered and paid off all their loans, I’m happy that others will not have to go through all of the bullshit I had to and maybe they can have a decent shot at not being as cynical and jaded as I am because of it. Maybe they’ll even have a savings account with a decent balance and a start on their retirement.
Other people getting a break or a little bit easier road in no way takes away from your accomplishment.
A roof over their head, a vehicle to get to work, food, electric bill, maybe even health insurance or a grand or two in savings to fall back on in case of a personal disaster or putting a little something in the 401k on the off hope you may one day retire? Maybe even buy a house, get married, and have a kid before they turn 40 instead of putting their entire life on hold for two decades because of a decision they made at 18?
There’s a lot wrong with the current student loan situation, but continuing to punish post grads that have no additional funds to put toward loans is like trying to get blood from a stone and doesn’t do anyone any good. I’d be willing to be that the vast majority of people want to do right and payback the full balance with interest. For some that’s just not in the cards.
I shudder to think of all the idiotic things I was doing and saying at 18 years old and how narrow minded and unfounded my worldview was. I then proceeded to sign for student loans that would be a primary factor in determining my financial and career trajectory for the next several decades. Not saying you’re wrong, but I think some additional education and resources focused on educating high school seniors on the long term effects of student lending and the proposition of ROI depending on what degree you choose… that could go a long way here.
Stock photo guy’s cube is over the top depressing. Not even a calendar on the cube wall? Work related reference drawing? Nothing? What the hell man. Buy a pennant for your favorite sports team and break the monotony.
Also props to the boys freezing or roasting their nads off working in the elements. May you one day be promoted to the comfy confines of the construction trailer with heat, AC, and plumbing.
Crime: In general, stay out of East Cleveland and you’ll be fine. Every major city has it’s blight spots. Downtown is safer than ever. I’ve never felt uneasy going downtown for a game or hitting east 4th street bars.
Brutal winters: Outside of the lake effect snowbelt (east side) it’s not terrible. Certainly no worse than Chicago. Depends on your definition of brutal. If below freezing with snow in the winter is “brutal”, than yeah, I guess. But anywhere with better weather will likely have a higher cost of living as well, since most people prefer warmer temps all else being equal. It’s a trade off and a personal preference. Some people enjoy cold weather. I (willingly) moved to Cleveland from upstate NY. Buffalo/Syracuse/Watertown have what I would call “Brutal” winters. Parts of upstate NY disappear under snow in late November and aren’t found until they thaw in April. Cleveland was a notable improvement in terms of weather for me. Perspective I guess. Makes you appreciate the warm sunny days in summer more.
In Ohio: I get it. Running joke and all that. But it’s home to a lot of big companies and some of the nicest people I’ve met in my almost 3 decades on this rock. I’m not here to put anyone else’s favorite state down, but there’s a lot of good things and good people that have come out of Ohio. The state and Cleveland in particular have had some tough stretches, but I truly believe they’ve come out stronger on the other side. I just feel like the constant Ohio bashing is mostly unjustified, particularly nowadays.
It’s definitely a city on the rise. Downtown is thriving. Ohio City and Tremont are becoming great spots just outside of the downtown area. New apartments and nightlife are going up every year. Cost of living compared to most other major cities is pretty damn good. It still has a lot of its grit and blue collar roots. Who doesn’t love an underdog with a comeback story?
I mean, I get it. Football is a religion in certain regions. But if you’ve never been through trying to plan a wedding and stick to a budget, certain sacrifices have to be made. Paying a 25% premium on a venue just because you want to have the wedding in “prime” season is one of the easiest things to sacrifice. If I’m inviting you to the wedding and know you have season tickets or were planning to go to a huge game that weekend I can understand skipping out. More booze for me and the rest of the crew. But if you’re planning on sitting at home on the couch and watching the game… I don’t know what to tell you. Personally, I’d have more fun at an open bar.
This story smells fake as hell.