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I keep getting older and our readers stay the same age. I know this because weekly I’m asked very similar questions from people considering law school. Most of them are fresh out of undergrad with their whole lives ahead of them, so naturally they want to set it all on fire and put themselves through a few more years of school. I try my best to respond in a timely manner because doing law school for the wrong reasons can be a rather costly mistake. For those of you who don’t know, I’m a licensed attorney in the state of Texas who now dabbles in content. Some call me a lawyer-podcast guy.
The email below features a good assortment of questions that anyone considering the three-year endeavor should ponder. Apologies to Dillon for going rogue and doing a bonus mailbag on the day his drops, but you got mailbag cucked, baby.
David,
I reached out to you via Snapchat the other day about some questions concerning law school. I appreciate your response, and think it’s best if we can at least try to make content out of it. I’m not sure which podcast these would apply to, so put them where you see fit.
First, thanks for finding me on Snap (@dcarterruff). Let’s make some content together, player.
Can you drink in law school?
Can you? Sure. The question is how much, and as you might have guessed, that’s entirely dependent on your level of self-control and maturity. This isn’t college. Missing class because of a hangover will leave you with all-time scaries, matched only by the prospect of being hungover in class. You’ll learn that’s not the move very quickly. Stumbling your ass through a case in front of 100 people while holding down the chorizo burger you ate at 2:20 a.m. is no way to go through life.
I went through law school a couple years after college, so my recovery abilities weren’t as polished as they were at 22. You will absolutely be studying on weekends (at least one day), and going too hard on Friday an set you back at a day. If you’re 30 or above, make that two days. Pick your spots.
Can you have a job in law school?
Yeah, a lot of people do. Some of my most successful peers found good firms to hire them after their first year, and that takes a lot of pressure off. I went to school in Oklahoma, but I knew I was going to end up in Texas. It didn’t make sense for me to get in with a local firm at the expense of my grades if I knew I was going to bail after graduation.
How many hours a day/week do you put into law school?
Generic but important answer: Treat it like a job. When I was at my best (first year), I was obsessed with school. Even if I prepared for class over the weekend, I’d still review notes/cases before class. A lot of that was wanting to succeed, but truthfully I just didn’t want to look like a dumbass in front of my peers.
Was it worth the large amount of debt you had to take on? Did it pay off?
Thanks for hitting me with the existential meltdown, guy. Ask me when I’m 40. Even though I don’t have a traditional law job, I still think my ability to take an issue and look at it from both sides is a major asset. Law school changes the way you think and exposes you to things (bad laws, felony murder rule, privacy issues, constitutional interpretations) that you should probably be aware of as a citizen. Plus you’ll be next-level insufferable when you go home for the holiday.
What does the course load mainly consist of?
Uhh, you can Google the 1L course load for whatever school you’re looking at. You’ll have some mix of Civil Procedure, Criminal Law, Property, Evidence, Torts, Constitutional Law and Contracts. Have fun with Erie.
If you could change anything about your time in law school what would it be?
Ehhh, in retrospect I should’ve transferred to a Texas school when I had the chance. Also that schedule that required me to have 4 finals in 2 days during my 3L year was probably not the move.
How much harder was it than undergrad?
Completely different animal. I actually remember law school and am not totally convinced I even went to undergrad. There’s a lot more ego and competition to deal with in law school too.
Best tip for success?
Read. Make your own outlines (at least during your first year when it matters). Don’t blackout at Barristers’ Ball. If you’re doing school to delay the real world (the law school punt as I call it), it’s not worth it.
If you weren’t doing what you’re doing now, which area in law would you practice?
Bird.
Don’t feel obligated to answer all, or to even put them on a podcast. These are really just for myself.
Well, I did. Hope it helped. There’s a tendency to put law school on a pedestal, and it freaks people out before they even crack open Pennoyer v. Neff. It’s school, not BUD/S. Create some structure around your life and be good at time management. You’ll be fine..
Respond
Dave
Lawyer. Writer. Dude doing business. I'm the meatloaf guy from tv.
@dcarterruff
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david@grandex.co
I’ll never forgot walking out of my Civ Pro exam and thinking “wow, I can’t believe Erie Doctrine wasn’t on the exam.” Spoiler alert: it was.
Hahahahaha. Law school summed up in one comment.
You know that moment when you’re lying in bed and think about something horrible and awkward you did in the past? Law school is like that, non-stop, for 3 years.
Lol that happened to me too. Ranked my gpa first semester thanks to the damn Eerie Doctrine. Still don’t know what it is.
The nod to Charlie and the noble field of Bird Law did not go unnoticed. The lawyer was one of my favorite recurring characters, possibly #1 with Cricket coming in a close 2nd
The UBE this past July had an MPT involving birds and the law (i vaguely remember the details at the moment) and I was so tempted to write “bird law is not governed by reason”.
Ugh Erie doctrine. *shudders*. I think it’s important to know WHY you want to go to law school. It’s hard work but if you want to go it’s manageable. Intense, but you’ll be fine. If you’re considering law school bc of a parent/spouse/friend/anyone other than yourself, it’s going to seriously suck and you probably won’t make it through first year.
Bingo. You need to have a reason to go other than, “I just want to be a lawyer.” You don’t need to know exactly what kind of law you want to practice (I didn’t my 1L year), but as long as you have some kind of purpose behind exactly why you’re there in the first place, it makes things much easier during those dark days of studying and bar prep. It could be that you genuinely just want to help people, maybe you have a particular cause you want to champion, maybe you just want the big paycheck. Doesn’t matter. If you only have superficial reasons for going to law school, you’ll find yourself slacking off and not caring as much as you should and you’ll end up being the person your classmates ask, “What happened to [blank]?” when you don’t come back for your second year.
Wouldn’t wanting the “big check” fall under superficial because that is in no way shape or form guaranteed to happen? Seems like assuming you’ll make a better living through obtaining a law degree is a pretty big chance to take.
If money is a big enough motivating factor for you, you can definitely get the grades necessary to land the six-figure salary, Big Law job right out the gate, then more power to you. I suppose by “superficial” I meant more than if your reasons for wanting to go to law school aren’t truly ingrained in you and you use some weak reasoning like, “Well I’m good at arguing,” then you’re not going to have a good time. Your purpose for going to law school should be your safety net to catch you and keep your head above water when things inevitably get rough. If you purpose is weak or thin, you’ll fall right through and ask yourself what you’re even doing there in the first place. That’s more what I meant.
Makes sense.
If you can’t get into a top 25-30 school, whether law or business, definitely think long and hard before you commit.
In some cases, it may make sense to go to a lower ranked school, like when you have a full scholarship or want to practice in a state where there’s only 1 or 2 law schools, and neither are highly ranked. But, generally, trying to get into the best school you possibly can is the way to do it.
As someone who came out of a non-t14 law school with minimal debt because of scholarships, I can confirm.
Admittedly my knowledge on the law school situation is just from personal experience with my older sister and her friends who are lawyers and I’m sort of equating it with the process I’m going through now applying to business school. But, from what I can tell, basing your decision off of scholarship money when comparing say a top 15 school to a school in the 30-40 range is a dumb decision because the opportunity gap after graduation is so massive. Again, not sure it’s the same for law as it is for business, but I’d much rather graduate from Northwestern with $100k in debt than from Arizona State debt free. Also depends on your current financial situation, I suppose.
Friend decided to do a top 14 school in one state vs. a top 20 school in another, even though he got a half tuition scholarship at the top 20 school. Ended up with a big law internship and full time offer so it was all (probably) worth it.
Lawyer with my own shop- advice is don’t go unless you absolutely love reading and writing and fighting with people. The emotional toll is something not talked about but fighting non stop really sucks
Kind of disappointed my school doesn’t offer a course on hot tub law, tbh. Going to have to learn this stuff all on my own now.
As a current barrister who did black out at Barrister’s Ball his 1L year, I can say that blacking out at that shin dig was not the move. Going to my professor’s office hours on Monday and apologizing for the ol’ “pistol-wink/head-nod/smirk” that I threw her way was not fun. Then again she wrote a glowing letter of rec for me, so who even cares.
Spin zone; you wouldn’t have gotten the glowing letter without the pistol-wink/head-nod/smirk. Keep shooting Cupid
Successful law students are really damn good at time management, and most people are better at managing time a few years after college graduation. I’d recommend holding off until 25 or later.
Also, practice tests are best way to prepare for exams. Most schools give you access to old exams. Hit those up.
Ancedotally, most of the people who were top of the class at my school started school in their late 20s or even 30s. The top 2 or 3 people came straight from undergrad, but they were the type of people who were either geniuses or developed good enough study habits to graduate school in 3 years.
I will never forget the girl 1L year who came to class so hungover she threw up. and neither will anyone else. Definitely drink, or you own’t make it through
But on the job question-ABA rules won’t allow a first year to work, or a second or third year to work more than 20 hours (if they are full time students), which contributes largely to the large student loan amounts. Of course this only applies during the school year, work all you want all summer!
It’s not can you drink in law school. It’s how much can you drink in law school.
Also, thanks for the ‘Nam-esque flashbacks I’m now having by mentioning Erie doctrine.